WIP: Mushroom Kingdom Fusion, November 11, 2008: Demo v0.2.5 released

Oh dear.

This is what happens when you exchange quality for quantity

No, MKF's sprite clashing is what happens when your not paying artists to keep all your art in one, non-clashing style. Not that we wouldn't like to conform to an art style, its just we're a non-profit product trying to cover at lot of themes no commercial product legally could, and even with a lot of artists working on board, couldn't even begin to keep up with as just side hobby.

Not like we want clashing sprites, we just hit a border where we could: A: not use them just because they "don't match". B: Not care and mix them anyways for gameplay's sake. We took B and its done us well enough so far.

This post has been edited by obreck2 on Mar 3 2009, 04:36 AM

Really, the whole appeal of MKF is the sprite clashing. Playing as SMB3 Mario through Green Hill Zone would be epic, but redrawing GHZ and all the Sonic stuff into a Mario-style would just destroy the whole point. Because as we've said time and time again, this is NOT a Mario fangame.

At any rate, new video up, showcasing Roll, Protoman, and Classic Mario:

THIS BE HOW WE "ROLL"

You know, all these character choices are cool and all, but i'm slowly starting to agree with Squirrel.

Whats the song in the castle when you fight skeleton Bowser? It sounds familiar...

Sprite clashing fits this game. It gives the feel of a lot of stuff getting mixed up.

This post has been edited by Ultramario on Mar 10 2009, 04:13 PM

A new feature planned? Clone characters, you say?

http://mkfusion.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=4968&st=0 : Yes.

Me: Oh. Okay then.

This post has been edited by Captain Cook on Mar 11 2009, 10:52 AM

Nice. Wait, you came back to MFGG for good? Or just to let us know?

Honestly, it really isn't. The original appeal was a Super Mario game with levels based around other games and still managing to look pretty damn good. You used to be able to pass it as an official product nearly. Now... not so much.

Then the point is flawed, because effort is what makes fangames stand out. The game itself is absolutely massive for a fangame already, it would be nice to know there's something good to look at if when it's done. Judgespear was managing to keep things within acceptable limits before... it makes very little sense to promote laziness. This project wasn't built off laziness before.

and it's not exactly hard to find alternatives that work

well perhaps it should be - at least you've got boundaries there rather than putting in every character under the sun despite the varying differences in gameplay. NO Body will create ridiculous amounts of sprites if you ask him too because he's great like that, but you're in danger of never actually completing this thing if you devote people's time to making characters rather than... well... good looking, well developed levels.

I lurk for the most part.

Don't expect me to post much... if at all.

Hello. My name is Shard. I'm going to reply to your statement in an orderly and systematic way.


Really, the whole appeal of MKF is the sprite clashing.

Honestly, it really isn't. The original appeal was a Super Mario game with levels based around other games and still managing to look pretty damn good. You used to be able to pass it as an official product nearly. Now... not so much.

The original appeal was a crossover fangame with elements from several different games, while having a large roster of characters from said games, not to mention power ups and levels, all tied together with an original plot. The sprite clashing is just a byproduct, but as long as the gameplay is accessible and fun, do the sprites really even matter? Nope. But if you are a person who judges games based on graphics, well, I can just say you're missing out on some really good games.

QUOTE (Ben66 @ Mar 10 2009, 06:18 PM)
Playing as SMB3 Mario through Green Hill Zone would be epic, but redrawing GHZ and all the Sonic stuff into a Mario-style would just destroy the whole point.

Then the point is flawed, because effort is what makes fangames stand out. The game itself is absolutely massive for a fangame already, it would be nice to know there's something good to look at if when it's done. Judgespear was managing to keep things within acceptable limits before... it makes very little sense to promote laziness. This project wasn't built off laziness before. And it's not exactly hard to find alternatives that work.

Effort? You look at this game and say there isn't effort? Let's see what will be in the final game, shall we?
-11 Worlds.
-7 powerups, unique powerup sets for each character.
-An original storyline.
-Over 70 levels.
-10 regular characters, not counting all of the unlockable secret characters.
-Currency and a shop system.
If you look at all this and call them lazy for the graphics, again makes me question your taste in games. You just sound like one of those Mario purists who flamed Judgespear when he showed Mario holding a gun. The game is no longer called Super Mario Fusion. It's Mushroom Kingdom Fusion, the Mushroom Kingdom part of the name alluding to the altered Mario gameplay.

Because as we've said time and time again, this is NOT a Mario fangame.

well perhaps it should be - at least you've got boundaries there rather than putting in every character under the sun despite the varying differences in gameplay. NO Body will create ridiculous amounts of sprites if you ask him too because he's great like that, but you're in danger of never actually completing this thing if you devote people's time to making characters rather than... well... good looking, well developed levels.

Now you are complaining about the vast roster of characters, and the fact that is isn't a Mario fangame. This, I do not get. And the "varying differences in gameplay"? How is that a bad thing? If each character provides a different experience, that invites the player to try out different characters, to see which one clicks with their comfort zone. The new clone and alt system is for people who want a slightly different experience with characters that almost click for them, but the player just wants them a little different. Also, overworking NO Body like that doesn't seem to be the right thing to do. The graphics really don't matter compared to the gameplay. Think about it: You can have a game that has the best graphics in the world, but if the gameplay sucks, no one will want to play it. About the level development, the forum for MKF is quite active, many of the frequent members have either made a level or are working on one. And the Suggestion forums just make it so that the dev team is never short of ideas.

Finally, I have one last thing to say: If you don't like the game, don't play it. However, if you've never played the game, I suggest you do that before you criticize MKF anymore. If you have played the game, it's very hard to believe you'd have anything bad to say about it.

Wow, this game looks awesome!
Sorry if this has been asked before, but can you customize your own controls?

yes you can

fight's on

cool but quote tags will help you

since when? A large array of characters is not a main appeal it's a bonus. I started caring for this game back when there was only one guy, no real plot to speak of and only a few items. I was happy. The addition of a few radically different gameplay modes in the form of Sonic and Arthur were cool too, but now it's gone a bit overboard and it's getting a bit silly. Some of them even look rushed since they're just taking already existing features from suits and already available characters and branding it as something new, when they really aren't.

Now I see nothing hugely wrong with characters that are massively different from each other, but there's two MegaMan clones now, Luigi and Tails which are "extensions" of Mario and Sonic repectively, Link which is very much Mario based etc. etc. It just seems uneccessary. IIRC there was a robot master poll where various robot masters were picked for weapons and whatnot. Rather than making suits for somewhat uneccesary characters you could have just given Arthur a shizzleload more weapons making him an even better character.

I dunno, that's what I would have done anyway.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles had Sonic, Tails and Knuckles playable. Knuckles took a different route to Sonic. Tails had his own areas, Sonic had his own levels. If they'd scrapped all that, kept them on the same path and added the huge array of characters introduced in later games, the game would have been that extra bit duller. If you bend that around here and have these new guys actually do something different than the rest, you might be onto something.

They do matter. It's foolish to say graphics don't play a role in a fangame, especially one that was built off an already existing engine that was widely used before MKF's release anyway. But as I said, this isn't a gameplay vs graphics war because gameplay's largely done and is excellent, and probably wouldn't be bettered unless everything ever was re-drawn. And I'm not suggesting that should be done. But come on, there's no reason why we should be mixing NES and SNES sprites in this day and age.

and yeah I'm on the side that would campaign for more obscure, less mainstream characters, and in order to be on that side I'd have to have played a lot of games. Coincidentally, I have. If I was a graphics ***** I wouldn't be using this seven year old PC. I'd be shooting down the heavily overused SMB3 sprites and I wouldn't have offered my little things as a substitute.

also you might have to direct me to a great game with sprite clashing that was released in the last few years

you lost me at "final game" because the specs of the "final game" have steadily increased over the game's lifespan

but yeah I'm in no way knocking the techincal achievements of the Fusion team. They've done great things... I just don't want to see them deviate from their long streak of good things. Do you want it to be remembered as "the fangame that put Mario up against Cacodemons" or "the fangame that put 340923409238 characters in to please the kiddies". The game is hardly effortless (though lets be honest, it was built off an already existing engine, it's not the "god of effort") but the game deserves a bit more effort put into it than MegaDrive GHZ graphics slapped in despite the fact they were made for sprites that are twice as big as the ones you're all using. I'm hoping that hasn't been done yet.

Oh god yeah it takes forever to make sprites that match but the end result is faaaaaar better and totally worth it in the long run.

Of course we may have to agree to disagree with the state of the plot and some of those seventy levels you've mentioned.

also 10 regular characters, 7 powerups each

why not 5 regular characters, 14 powerups each

why not make Luigi a Mario powerup?!?!1


and i don't flame because flaming is bad

see somewhere above about characters

It could be a sonic fangame for all I care the point I was making is the thing needs boundaries. Maybe it has some that haven't been mentioned here. I dunno, but this thing seems to be getting bigger and bigger with no end in sight. I'm not in the "development zone" I have no idea what's being planned outside of this topic and YouTube tbqh. But it's an odd thing to suddenly read that the character limit set in place a few months ago has been crushed with roll. A lot of my points may be null and void.

also all things considered it's still based on a Mario engine, uses Mario elements (hey I tried to get a Kirby with ability swallowing stuff but that deviated too much apparently) and has "mushroom kingdom" in the title. It might not be purely "Marioy" but it's more "Marioy" than "Sonicy" or "Arthury".


also you've got to remember Someguy's been silent for months now and I've no other fangames to really look forward to except things like Retro Sonic and that's been kept a secret.

I dunno did I even complain about that one, I thought I was going on about how they weren't varied enough... perhaps a typo...

but I thought you had a skinning system for that or something. If you're adding options to change acceleration or deceleration and things like that then great, but again this shouldn't be a key part of the game. An extra that shouldn't be expanded on too much at this stage considering the game's already massive in size

no it doesn't

trade unions will have your head if you don't designate decent amounts of break time to employees

dragons are people too

and if the graphics are squares and debug sensors nobody will want to play it either

trust me at 20FPS graphics and music are far more appealing than gameplay

this is a slight issue and though I mean no disrespect to anyone personally but there are a lot of terrible ideas that float around these parts. I've been in fangaming oooh I dunno... about six maybe seven years? There are significantly more terrible ideas than good ones. Everyone makes mistakes but on the internet there are groups of people who will collectively make that mistake, usually because they're young.

how many of your userbase knew who Arthur was until it was told by Judgespear or whoever? I bet it's a worryingly low number.


also quality control on the main site makes me a tight-arse who nitpicks

right but I never implied that

I've played every release but the most recent one because it's 100MB. Seeing as I knew it would be a massive download with massive loading times running too slow on this PC, I thought it better to leave that copy alone, but there are more than enough videos showing off the game and it's just as easy to comment on those.

you'll notice that the majority of constructive critisism I've given is based on the graphics choice or various features that can be seen. You're right, I can't comment on things like how the characters play pixel for pixel, but I can compare it to earlier videos and make a decent judgement.

of course a game as ambitious as this will need to be able to take constructive critisism. Lord knows the critisism it might get from the higher ups after its release could be worse. If anything I'm just trying to prevent that.

whoops


but yeah don't get the impression I hate this project. Far from it in fact. But bad organisation with strange or non-existant goals is the main killer of fangames.


also how did roll get in instead of Mickey Mouse. That would have been far more interesting.


and though I'm practically the only one posting things that aren't blindingly positive others do share this view, I assure you



god I feel like a git when I post things of this size

what is even going on in here D:

An argument that apparently started over the clashing sprites.

And other stuff.

>_>

a quantity vs. quality war

Quality, THEN Quantity.

http://mkfusion.ipbfree.com/index.php?act=idx
The forum. Please, look before criticizing. Its not supposed to be a JUST MARIO FANGAME. Its supposed to basically be a tribute to video games in general. Sure, Mario plays a big part, but really, its not a Mario fangame.