don't update your wiis guys - WARNING, newest update looks gay

I carefully considered what I posted there, and can't possibly see anything wrong with that reasoning. Seems pretty elementary to me.

Unless you're starting some nonsense like "stealing isn't always wrong, and companies shouldn't be allowed to condemn/stop it because that suppresses FREEDOM!"

LOL I UPDATED.

okay how is running homebrew "stealing"

seriously what the **** made you come across that conclusion

nobody cares

YOU ARE BEING UBER KAWAII MEAN!

the twilight hack allows homebrew to be run. that is, our own code, developed independently from nintendo. if people are going to copy commercial games/ROMs, whatever their purpose may be, then that's their thing. homebrewers generally don't endorse piracy.
and people can just as well run the same ROMs emulated on their PC's as they can on the Wii if that's what they're after. thankfully, that's not the point of homebrew, otherwise we wouldn't really bother.

nintendo is stupid for playing the cat-and-mouse game with the technology enthusiasts who paid for their wii hardware just as much as the next person and want to use it to run their homebrew.
we've got really bright hackers that can figure out more exploits to use (besides the twilight hack) to get our code running. we have evidence from what was disassembled of this update that nintendo spent three months testing the update -- that's three months to waste on making sure one specific hack (the code they used very specifically looked for the string-based stack smash used by the current twilight hack) will be deleted upon detection. and we'll find more exploits to run our code, and they'll waste more time, money, and resources trying to prevent us from using them.
you'd think they would've learned from the game sony plays with the psp firmware. I'm very disappointed in nintendo today.

while you might think they "deserve" to push out firmware updates to prevent us from having fun with our machines, it's stupid of them. deservedly stupid. they're going after the wrong people -- the homebrew enthusiasts are very much customers of nintendo who bought a wii and want to run freely available programs on it. if they want to go after the pirates, then go after the pirates. seek out the people releasing wii games onto the internet if you want to stop piracy so badly. homebrewers generally harbor contempt for piracy because it gets associated with them (unwillingly) and causes people like you to write it off as something illegal or wrong.

I'd say just as well I "deserve" to be able to run whatever code I want on my wii, just as I can on any of my other computers.

um "homebrew" being freely available and often copylefted programs
and "ROMs" being the misnomer you guys generally use for copyrighted/commercial game piracy in all forms
yeah I'd say that's a wrong thing in your reasoning you might wanna check out

okay who's stealing again I missed that
this is a different issue entirely, but still: let's not use the word "steal" to describe something that is not theft. when "stealing" occurs:
party A owns and has item X. party B does not.
B steals X from A.
A no longer has X.
B does have X.

this is not what happens when "copying" occurs. (note to the uninitiated: "downloading" is generally the same as copying)
party A has item X. party B does not.
B copies X from A.
A still has X.
B also has X.

now when someone violates copyright (which in and of itself is broken these days but like I said that's a different issue), it may be against the law, but it's not stealing. it's copying.

I don't really like the word "piracy" to label this either, because copying data isn't really on the same level as plunder at sea.
"copyright violation" or "illegal copying" or something similar would be better, but "software piracy" is still understandable for the time being (and I know I use it just out of habit or just for brevity like in this post).



now on the issue itself: nintendo certainly is allowed to protect its copyrighted material by law.
chasing after the homebrewers to prevent them from running programs they have every right to possess and run, however, is a dumb move and is in fact suppressing their freedom.

I love how when you make huge posts, no one complains

But when Grant made gigantic posts (Back in the day haha), everybody freaked out


Nothing against you, of course, that was actually rather informative

I guess it just kinda annoys me

so the tables have turned!

I don't know just what your path of reasoning is or how well you understood my post, but I was not talking about homebrew.

I was talking about ROMs of commercial games (like Nintendo's own games, which it has a RIGHT to profit from rather than have taken for free through illegal means), which people earlier in the topic said could be run through the use of this Twilight Hack. If the Twilight Hack permits this sort of thing, in addition to the running of innocent homebrew that isn't pirated commercial material, then it's fine for Nintendo to work against the hack because of the simple fact that it can be used for bad things that the Wii's normal functionality would not allow. If there were a method through which innocent homebrew could be run but pirated ROMs could NOT, then I would be fine with that.

But as it is, it's a state of "with the hack, pirate games can be run on the Wii; without it, they can't", so that's a reason right there for the makers of the Wii to resist public use of the hack with their products.

It's also irrelevant that pirated Nintendo games can be run on a PC anyway, because Nintendo can't control what happens on PCs, since they don't make PCs. But they can do their bit against piracy of their own games by making the Wii, at least, resistant to being used to support that.

You know, Grant actually kinda has a point here. If homebrew blocked the use of loading ROMs onto an emulator app (somehow), then I could see justification in getting antsy about Nintendo sending out this update. But as for now, there's no way to properly do that.

It's kinda like banning guns from being sold. Sure, somebody buying a gun might use it for hunting, or target practice, but how can you be so sure they aren't going to shoot another human being?

well it seems like you don't mind them stepping on it! and you're awfully quick to tie it to piracy, which is all kinds of wrong.

you're still missing the point

homebrew means any program you damn well please -- including, say, snes9x.
I can use snes9x to play snes games on my pc. I can also use the wii port of snes9x to play them on my wii.
I can run my own programs on my pc, for whatever purpose. I can also run my own programs on the wii, for whatever purpose.

if people are going to download snes ROMs and play them with snes9x, then that's their issue. whether snes9x is the pc version or the wii version, the same thing is happening.

trying (and inevitably failing) to stop homebrew is a waste of their time and ours anyway.

there's not gonna be a method to determine what homebrew is "innocent" because a program is a program. you can use it to do "innocent" things or not. that's up to the end user.
and emulators like snes9x are very legitimate programs in their own right. they can obviously be used for things besides piracy.

no it isn't; in fact, before the twilight hack was found, drivechips gave us the ability to boot pirated wii games burned to DVD. the twilight hack gave us the ability to use legitmate things like homebrew. a few firmware updates later, nintendo's chasing after the homebrewers, while the drivechips still work fine and dandy.
(not that drivechips to play burned DVD's are a bad thing, I have used such things for my own personal backups anyhow. but that also is a separate issue.)

it's very relevant. the wii is a computer just as much as a pc.
why should nintendo try to control what happens on a piece of hardware I own?
or is nintendo leasing it to me? do I have to give it back? do they still own it, and I'm renting it so I have to let them dictate what I can and can't do with the $250 piece of hardware sitting next to me?
I aught to be free to use my hardware however I'd like. within reason, of course; I'm not going to pirate **** just because I can homebrew on my wii. that doesn't make sense

nintendo's chasing the wrong people. homebrewers aren't at fault for letting (say) the weenies with the whole GoodSNES set play their ROMs on the wii. they could've zsnes'd or snes9x'd their games on their PC just as easily, and they already copied the games anyway. who gives two ****s whether or not they do it on the wii?
nintendo, obviously.

Does it block editing Miis on your computer to change the name to Japanese, or to change the color of the Miis to something that isn't one of the choices? I hope it doesn't block that

Nope

I love how when you make huge posts, no one complains

But when Grant made gigantic posts (Back in the day haha), everybody freaked out


Nothing against you, of course, that was actually rather informative

I guess it just kinda annoys me

That's because he usually makes more sense logically.

This post has been edited by Elyk on Jun 17 2008, 10:24 PM

Grant made perfect sense

People were just ignorant towards him