Attention Atheists.

Religion is much good wisdom. Just my belief are more agnostic than anything else. I have my own religion which is closer to agnostic. Many of my ideas/opinions of religion are not like other ones.

This post has been edited by zzo38 on Jul 23 2008, 03:57 PM

I'm sure a lot of people just like the term agnostic because it kind of puts them at the top of the high chair. A christian and an atheist will be arguing and then an agnostic can step in and say, "Yeah? Well I'M an agnostic."

And teenagers these days love to avoid conformity, with agnosticism being the smallest group, it's only natural they'd go for that.

I'm not saying everyone chooses to call themselves that for stupid reasons like this, but what I am saying is that it doesn't matter, because at the end of the day, neither of us worship a God.

I'd like to say that I DO/have study(ied) most religions, and find them to be just a bunch of moral-weaved fairy tales.

To paraphrase lifning, religion is great as a series of ethics and moral guidance, but to completely deny any science that contradicts the stories told by said religion is wrong.

To me, the theistic and atheist and agnostic ways are just different ways of saying similar things. I just like the most logical one to me, which is agnostic. My mother is Christian and I respect that. My father is atheist and I respect that. They said before the sun moves around the Earth, but now we will say the Earth goes around the Sun, because it is simpler to calculate. But, relativity says both ways are correct. Also in my opinion (my own religion), assigning material efficacy to prayer is a bit like greed, and greed should be avoided. Prayer can be a soliloquy. And sometimes it is necessary to meditation/praying on things to hope it will be OK.

I wasn't attacking anybody. I don't know how you could have misconstrued that as being an attack. But you completely missed the point. I was saying that no matter which extreme you want to label yourself, do you worship a God? If not, you're in one category, if so, you're in another. Agnostics fit more in with atheists than they do theists.

Also, I know you weren't being serious, but atheists can, in fact study up on religion. It's hard to generalize atheists, because they're basically "anything other than..." whatever group.

I was raised a Christian, and as a kid, I was a pretty committed one too. I would correct people when they said "Oh my God" for saying the Lord's name in vain and all kinds of silly stuff like that. Going to a catholic school, religion was my best subject. Later on I began to be unsatisfied with the answers I was getting when I asked questions about Religion, and I spoke with several priests and Religion teachers, all of them usually discouraging me from asking anything, saying something along the lines of "Well that's just the way God made it."

So anyway as I grew older, I actually studied up on just about every major religion, finding that the only one I liked at all was Buddhism, but it was too much of a commitment for me.

So I considered myself agnostic for a period of time.

But once I realized that you don't need to have a set-in-stone belief that there is no God to call yourself an Atheist, I started going by that title. Really, to me, and it may not jive with the actual definition, but it's how I'll always know it, an Atheist is either someone who actively opposes religion, or just doesn't care.

Agnostics don't do this. Go outside more. Learn a little and stop making blatantly false and unjustified blanket statements.

Most of the "fights" between atheists and Christians are initiated by atheists blindly attacking Christians. Some agnostics just chose not to do that, and the one's that do get the same treatment as atheists.

Most teenagers these days are atheist, so no. Come back after you do some research and stop pulling made-up facts out of nowhere.

Just because neither worships doesn't mean they are one in the same. That's like saying Jews and Christians both worship God, thus they are the same religion. Other factors count in a religion too.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Aforcer on Jul 23 2008, 04:08 PM

Fairly wrong there. If it's not an equal amount of both, it's Christians. Case in point: This topic.

I agree with that (in the second paragraph, at least). But, I think the Bible is not just a bunch of moral-weaved fairy tales, the Bible is good and wise but it is a collection of all sort of different things. The book of Genesis is really more like the Greek myth stories, but other books may be more historically accurate. Still, much of it contradicts itself if you take it literal. Just take it wisely instead of literal and it is good. It is moral good, like you have described.

I dunno. Maybe the part where you said agnostics sit on the fence and suck their thumb?

Like I said before, just because you don't worship a god or gods doesn't mean the two are one in the same. They may fit under the same label (like Judaism and Christianity are both theological), but that doesn't mean they're anywhere close to being the same thing.

If you can generalize agnostics as all being "thumb-sucking fence-sitters that are afraid of a bit of hatred," then I see know problem in doing the same thing about atheists. I merely said that to prove a point.

Okay, good for you. Everyone's not you. Just because you found being agnostic to be less than favourable to your lifestyle, doesn't mean other's don't like it.

Oh, and if you studied so much about religion, why do you seem so ignorant?

This post has been edited by Mrs. Aforcer on Jul 23 2008, 04:16 PM

Mmm... fine. I secede, but I do see alot of atheists intentionally provoking Christians. Perhaps they are not the first to attack, but they bait the beast quite a bit from what I've seen. Christians react when atheists come into their life and go about trying to "disprove" what they believe, whether it's meant maliciously or otherwise.

I mean, I don't see mobs of Christians with torches and pitchforks storming the streets to convert atheists, but...

I'll buy it, fine. To be fair, I suppose the guilt is equal, no?

This post has been edited by Mrs. Aforcer on Jul 23 2008, 04:20 PM

Forgive me if this is uncalled for, but it's a little bit hypocritical for a Christian to be complaining about unjustified statements.

Oh, really? Can you cite your source on this data? Just because your experience as a Christian has lead to more atheists initiating arguments with you, doesn't mean my experience as an atheist hasn't lead to more Christians initiating arguments with me. If anything, it would be 50/50.

And another thing, unlike Christians, who all share a single belief (For the most part. I mean there are different divisions, but you could treat those separately), you can't treat atheists as one person.

Atheists are the "none of the above" category. The actions of one take nothing from the ideas of others.

I'm going to chock this up to a typo, but I'm pretty sure you mean most teenagers these days are agnostic? If not, that's not what I said. I said agnostics are the minority, not atheists. Which was my point.

They're not the same Religion, of course, but in my eyes, as an atheist, they might as well be the same, because they both believe in a God, which is the only principle about religion that I disagree with. Do you honestly thing Atheists oppose christian ideas of togetherness and spreading love? Of course not. It's just the fact that you should be doing it of your own free-will, not because some God tells you to.

Agreed.

And ChaosEmerl does have somewhat of a point:

Do believe for sure: Religions
Do not believe: Atheists, Agnostics

It's such a stupid argument though. I don't see why it matters what you call yourself, as long as you know what you believe.

First off, no it's not; that's blatant discrimination.

Second off, who said I was Christian?

See above post. I seceded my argument and said I'd call the guilt a fair 50/50.

I never treated them as one person -- in fact, I don't even know what you mean by this statement, but okay. I cited the atheist beliefs. If you don't believe those concepts, then you are not atheist. Just like if you don't believe the ideas of Christianity, you are not really a Christian.

Dictionary -- get one. Atheists believe in no god. At all. Period.

No. Most teenagers are not agnostic, let alone even know what it is. I did not mistype; I intentionally said "Most teenagers are atheist."

Just because agnostics are a minority does not mean that most teenagers adopt an agnostic way of life. Juts like people that shop at Hot Topic are not a minority, but still a good chunk of teenagers shop there. Teenagers claim to do things "original" and "not like everyone else," but in the end, they act just as much like sheep as adults do.

Well, what you "choose to believe" doesn't change an entry in the dictionary or any other important text.

No, I don't think atheists oppose such ideals. I never said they did. I said they opposed the idea of a divine being controlling the world or watching over it. And agnostics accept the possibility of one. That's the difference that we were arguing in the first place, so I don't know what kind of strange tangent you've gotten off onto, but that's the bottom line.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Aforcer on Jul 23 2008, 04:37 PM

If an atheist is someone who absolutely KNOWS there is no God, then there are no atheists on this planet. And if there are, they're delusional.

Once again: agnostics accept a divine being as a possibility. Atheists do not.

You can put religions and "non-religions" under one simple heading, but the point is just because two things share a common principle (or are under the same heading) does not make them the same thing.

Well, I guess...

But that's like saying you're a Democrat and actually being a Republican. It's a matter of being confusing to others and misrepresenting your own beliefs.

No one knows anything for sure nor have i ever said anyone does. I never said an atheist knew there was no god(s), I said that's what they believe.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Aforcer on Jul 23 2008, 04:43 PM

Well I believe there is probably no God, and if there was one, he definitely wouldn't be the God of any particular Religion. And I live my life on the assumption that there's no God.

Does that make me an atheist or an agnostic?

do you accept the possibility of a god when you say this or not

you've admitted that it is possible for there to be a god. if you meant this, you're an agnostic.

if you didn't mean it, you're an atheist.