Clarification of ratings and reactions

You can also have an opinion without insulting anyone

lies

Yes it is, actually.

And stop brown-nosing and have some dignity, seriously, PK. There's nothing wrong with having an opposing argument, but at least bring up some facts or logic in your post instead of just shameless sucking up and backseat modding.

Just because you don't get paid isn't really an excuse to do a bad job. Yeah, you do do it on a completely volunteer-based system, but if the members are discontent with your behaviour, then we should have at least some power to propose a reconsideration. I'm not saying it's going to be a complete democracy, but if it's clear that a mod/admin is doing a poor job and playing off "I'm not being paid" as an excuse, then you know what.

I think that mod/admin being laid off would benefit both parties; no one would have anything to complain about -- the mod/admin would no longer have to volunteer for free, while the members no longer have a poor-quality mod/admin.

I mean, volunteering is just that -- volunteering. It's optional and you can leave at any time. If you can't do a good job anymore without getting paid for it, then maybe it's time you stepped down and gave the part to a person that can be responsible without demanding pay.

tl;dr, no getting paid is a pretty bad excuse.

Also, on the note of "MFGG is not a country" and all -- no, it's not, but there's no reason for us not to have standards. It's sad when mods/admins neglect their responsibilities or abuse their powers, and then say it's all right because we're bound to have flaws here without a real government system.

Just because mistakes right happen doesn't mean you all should go rather out of your way to make them. You can still have standards; you can still try to be the best you can. Like I said, if you're just going to keep making bad decisions and covering them up with "It's okay things aren't perfect," you can pretty much guarantee that people are going to get mad.

Jesus, I'm glad someone has some critical thinking skills around here! My point really wasn't that convoluted to begin with, but all you folks seem to be having an awful lot of trouble with it...!

I vote Elixer for mod team 2010!

Go away, Mason.

Having an opinion is fine, you can be annoyed with the administration, that's fine, but not flaming/insulting the administration in a post.
How is that hard to grasp?
It's not that hard to see.
How hard is it to post an opinion without flaming anybody?
That's what I'm trying to say here.

This post has been edited by Parakarry on Jul 28 2009, 03:03 PM

he like, just became admin. are you really using this lame (easy to follow) rule as an outlet to say that he's a bad admin? I think he's doing pretty good, actually :\

she's speaking in general, obviously.

oops sorry I misread your post X(

This post has been edited by Razz on Jul 28 2009, 03:13 PM

I knew I should've specified that I was using "you" in the general sense.

I forgot that most people on MFGG can't make this discernment on their own.

Most of these people aren't flaming, they're voicing their opinions and critiquing a system that needs critique.

People need to learn that critiques do not equate to flaming.

(You should tell that to all the folks who wrote and enforce the "stupidity rule"! I know I'd be insulted if someone told me I was doing something "stupidly".)

Mason and Spritanium weren't really banned for the opinion. It's actually the opposite; they were banned because of the opinion some others had on them!


I have great faith in my belief that if a few key things happened around here, improvement would show.

If:

- The staff (or, the staff members who have the power) stopped trying to prune the boards to their own ideas of what boards should be

- These new rules were repealed

- Member-moderator communication was standardized

I think things would be better on the side of the members. I'll elaborate.

Some of the staff members post here and tell everyone that the forum is full of crappy posters and generally low-quality content. You'll see this a lot in the monthly ban threads. The mods are expecting too much out of such a large body of people. Not everyone is like you, everyone knows that. Some are very willing to change, you've seen that in threads like this, and some refuse to give in. These are the "complainers" or "whiners". Compromises can be made and agreements can be reached.

The new rules talking about "troll ratings" or "reaction images" or whatever it is are measures taken for the mods to try to shape up what they view as a low-quality community, and it goes too far in its encroachment. Everyone posts what they post for a reason, and it's not fair at all (I'll use that word) to ban or warn because you didn't want to take the time to find out what. Look at this thread; the mods are trying to make the members understand what these new rules mean, why can't it go both ways? I'm not saying it does not EVER happen, I'm saying that it needs to be standard operating procedure.

This is something Kritter promised in the troll ratings thread and, in just my own experience, has been very good as I've had pretty good correspondence with some of the staff members since then. I'd very much like to see it become standard for administrative action.


If blame HAS to be given to someone (???): I am placing the blame on the staff. I'm doing that because all of these problems ("drama") came up when Kritter made that troll ratings thread and the new rule. I'll re-iterate, though, that this only applies to the staff members IN POWER (reading some stuff recently has made me think that these two groups do not have the same membership roster). Mods have told the members that they should look at themselves as the problem and not pick on the mods so much, but these are "problems" that didn't exist before. Mods created these problems and they are their own.


I'll end by turning away for a second and just saying that I do appreciate the humility that some staff members like Tri and Guineau have shown. That's a very big step in the right direction, I think.

This post has been edited by Tony Trombone on Jul 28 2009, 03:18 PM

One of the boards I go to, a post in it called MFGG "4chan lite."
That's really not good at all. That's pretty indicative of what the place feels like sometimes.

This post has been edited by Parakarry on Jul 28 2009, 03:17 PM

nah my mistake, lack of sleep is getting to me.

One of the boards I go to, a post in it called MFGG "4chan lite."
That's really not good at all. That's pretty indicative of what the place feels like sometimes.

I'm really sorry that you have an issue with that. Hell, I have an issue with that! It feels like "4chan lite" to me sometimes. That's not a good enough reason, though, to impose these new rules. I would definitely understand if there was a problem with the posting of pornography, but this is not the case.

This post has been edited by Tony Trombone on Jul 28 2009, 03:21 PM

Having an opinion is fine regardless of what that opinion is, right? So, if I think the administration is going down the ****hole at the speed of light, that's fine because it's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure the administration would be very insulted if someone voiced that opinion, and you've just said that posting an insult to the administration is not OK. Conclusion: you can't have a negative opinion of the administration.

</logic>

This post has been edited by mariobro27 on Jul 28 2009, 04:35 PM

I guess what you're looking for is "diplomacy".

"How can I tell the staff that I'm not happy without insulting them?"

Probably your post is a good example of how that works. While saying an opinion that's negative, you have also included in your post that the staff are also human and offended if you would just have said that opinion.

There are many people here however, who do not have this talent, and who are wording their opinions in ways that ends up in losing respect for the poster and thus ignroing their opinion.


So I'd suggest this:
If you have opinions (that are negative) about staff decissions, do not use sarcasm, do not use swear words and do not use any other form of rethorical stuff that is likely to offend someone, and you're more likely to be heard.

Honestly, this is the only forum I've ever been to where every figure of speech is taken literally, the members need everything explained to them, and the members crusade against the staff every two weeks for supposedly being able to piss fire.

I'm not going to go into details as to my stance on this recent series of ****storming, but it would be really nice to know why some of you are outright incapable of venting your frustration a) without insulting/belittling the staff and b) still providing sound reasoning for why you're crusading for the things you're crusading for.

This is like the fourth or fifth ****storm this month. Don't you guys get tired of this? Jesus Christ.

If you don't want to offend, I think it's very hard to go wrong when the attitude you have when posting is not so much about pointing out something wrong just for the sake of pointing out something wrong, but pointing out something wrong in order to make it known so that it can be fixed and improvements can be made. It is very possible to let someone know how you feel without insulting or offending them.

did you tell them how wrong they were?

Yeah! Its at least 4chan's oldest brother!
Seriously, listen to the member's opinions, if you think something might start a ****storm think twice, and lighten up. On the other hand, members need to go a bit easier on the mods, they work hard to make this place enjoyable, and its hard to do that when people yell at them for anything they do.
Edit: Why do I feel like this post will be ignored?

This post has been edited by MONEYMAN on Jul 28 2009, 05:42 PM

Considering whether or not to tell you about how you only think you have that opinion. I see plenty of your posts and you seem to just try to fit in, rather than be yourself.

ps i am not trying to be a douche with this post

This post has been edited by Dark Yoshi on Jul 28 2009, 05:57 PM

Oh my gosh! Toodles is taking part in a debate! Call the newspapers!

Yeah, with that out of the way, I'd just like to point out something that seems to have been forgotten in the recent months on here. We are posting on the Mario Fan Games Galaxy forums. Let me put that in bold for emphasis: We are posting on the Mario Fan Games Galaxy forums. Okay, got that? Good. It's important.

You see, (that's the collective you, by the way) it would seem that the majority of the members on here seem to have forgotten the reason this forum exists! As an extension to the main site, these forums are meant to serve as a place where folks who have a common interest in Mario and fangame production and other such things can come to share ideas, resources, games, and even engage in some friendly conversation with one another.

At least, that was the point of the forum when I joined. And as far as I know, that was point of the forum when it was created, too.

Over time, though, it would seem that more and more members are joining MFGG who have no interest in Mario fangames, or even Mairo in general. Now before the posts come rolling in about discrimination or whatever, I'd like to ask a question. If you don't have any interest in Mario games or making fangames or doing anything even remotely related to the original purpose of this community, then why the heck did you even join in the first place? Surely there are other forums and communities and such out there on the internet that could better serve your needs. Am I wrong? This is the same point I made back in the Artistic Nudity discussion. MFGG is not the place for such things.

I'm not quite sure where this notion came from that MFGG has to cater to every single kind of member and every single kind of discussion and everything else under the sun. But one thing I have noticed is that it is spoiling the community. I'm not going to point fingers here because I think both staff and regular members are to blame for this. There's one thing that a lot of members don't seem to realize. MFGG is not very important. It's not a country. it's not the UN. It's not a special organization that has to make sure that every single person can be totally happy doing whatever they want. It's simply a place for those with similar interests about Mario and game making and the like to show their work and communicate. That's why I come here, and so far I have had absolutely no problems abiding by the forum rules and getting along with the other members. Fact is, very few people would care if MFGG ceased to exist tomorrow. Doesn't that make it seem just a tad pointless to nitpick everything and criticize other members for being terrible people all the time? I just don't see the point.

With the troll rating thing, I can see where the staff is coming from, especially with the clarification of this topic. Are troll ratings even remotely related to making a fangame, or discussing an article, or showing off some artwork? No! Of course not! They have nothing to do with that. Regular ratings, such as giving a fangame an 8/10 in a review or something do, and those are aloud! Makes sense to me! That's where the rules should come from, and that's what the focus of the members should be. If something has nothing to do with Mario,, game making, artwork, and the various other focuses of the forums on this board, it has no purpose being here. And that includes members, too. And it definitely isn't a concept that requires constant nitpicking and blaming of others to figure out.

Yes, the staff is going to make mistakes. Yes, there will be members with valid opinions that aren't particularly popular. And yes, there will always be members who will complain even when the staff doesn't do something wrong. I guess my point is, basically, to just chill out! One little issue on MFGG is not the end of the world. Now please direct you're attention to this page, pick out something that looks fun and take a chill pill. It's good for you.

And please don't pull this post to shreds and point out every little flaw in my logic. If you understand the point of this post, just leave it alone. I hate debates.

This post has been edited by Toodles on Jul 28 2009, 05:52 PM