Why does charisma (or grammar) always defeat logic, in an argument?

I lost an argument the other day where my "opponent" swore up and down that four does not go into sixty evenly. (Four times fifteen equals sixty, FYI.) He stated that you had to multiply it by 2.5, which would equal 10. (EDIT: I should probably mention that he did not include the "which would equal 10" in his side.) I was baffled by this stupidity but when I tried to easily prove my point he freaked out and screamed "STOP BEING IMMATURE. DROP IT." No, he wasn't "IRL trolling" in my opinion. It may be a stupid assumption but since he is an admitted stoner, I attributed his idiocy to that. (EDIT: Not to mention the fact that he's pissed off about it to this day and now thinks that I'm the one who sucks at elementary school math.) I decided to drop the argument; I didn't feel like proving something so minor.

The same can go on a message board. This is a rather extreme example but many would go with the latter in the following argument.

I had trouble thinking of a real example and it appears that the second person is trolling, but let's say in this fictional example that he actually believes this. A lot more people are inclined to side with him because his typing skills are obviously better than his opponent, not unlike a person who wins an argument in real life due to charisma. And yeah, I know someone's going to say "I WOULDN'T SIDE WITH THE SECOND PERSON!" As I said before, it was an extreme example.

ITT cite other examples of arguments won due to pure charisma, better grammar, or anything else that should not be the sole reason for winning an argument.

This post has been edited by Morshu McPhereson on Nov 1 2009, 08:04 PM

almost the whole of politics, religion, etc.

which one are you more likely to support

this guy?


or this guy?

because everyone else is stupid, and so they believe the person that's wrong just because of how fancy they seem

the few intelligent people will snicker though and that's the only people you should care about



/bitteroldlady

The former if he is actually more intelligent and proves his point with logic.

it's all politics

The second person isn't fully gramatically correct anyways.

This post has been edited by RetroXYZ on Nov 1 2009, 08:10 PM

almost everything. if u type liek dis, noobuddy weeel leezin to u.

also people listen to the second because the first doesn't make them want to shoot puppies everytime they post

Topic title is true but your example is bad since you didn't "lose." Other guy was just ignorant and refused to believe otherwise.

What your opponent did here was make use of a number fallacious arguments that help bring people on their side without logic.

More specifically, he was making an Error of Fact. "YOU'D HAVE TO MULTIPLY IT BY 2.5, IDIOT." sounds correct, because nobody is going to actually sit down and think about it. They're just going to assume that this person has done the work for them.

There are many more advanced techniques he could have used, as anyone willing to think would have easily caught this fallacy.

But there was another technique in play there. It's called the False Dilemma. This is probably why everyone agreed with him. He essentially presented the idea that 'YOU'D HAVE TO MULTIPLY IT BY 2.5' as the only possible explanation. People would think to themselves "Hmm, well that wouldn't work. I guess he's right."

If you get good enough at fallacy, you can win any argument.

This post has been edited by ChaosEmerl on Nov 1 2009, 08:30 PM

What kind of people do you argue with? And why?

the second argument does have reasoning for its claim though, the first one is simply "THIS IS TRUE YOU'RE AN IDIOT" sort of thing, so it's easy to see why people would agree with the second example

Charisma makes people seem more knowledgeable, as well as good mannered. People are more apt to believe someone they feel is knowledgeable than someone else. Could also go into the "life is a popularity contest", but that is for another day.

Anyone will listen and pay attention to you if you present yourself as a charismatic and likable person. It has been proven to work. Even if your opinions aren't the best choice, a few bombastic speeches will clear things up!

Perhaps I should try it, if it isn't too late to change.

I've noticed the trend as well.

as someone who prides themselves on being a logically minded individual, I am often very frustrated with people I argue with, especially on the internet. thos people often have no charisma, but are so determined and emotional about what they have to say that it doesn't even matter that I have proved you wrong 10 times over, your final response with be "screw you".

those are the ones I hate most, the ones who don't really even try to argue, just shout obscene things and insult you.

I've experienced that before

At a table quiz, a question came about what place on earth had the lowest birth rate, I knew the correct answer ( Vatican City, with birth rate of Zero ) but owing the fact my social skills were lacking, the other team mates shot me down, even when I tried explaining it.

I remember slapping one of the guys on the head in frustration when the panel read out the correct answer that they had shot me down on.

Is it any wonder why I'm a lone wolf?

This isn't always true though.

Back in high school, whenever I said something, everybody agreed with me, because I'm a prodigious virtuoso who knows everything. I had 0 points in Charisma. But the key was only speaking when I knew I was right, and keeping my mouth shut otherwise. It lead to me being thought of as a silent genius. Whenever a class struggled to answer to a question, they looked to me to end their relentless torture. And whenever I spoke, all would go silent, as if the voice of the messiah were echoing from the heavens.

No but seriously. A lot of people will just agree with people because they're smart, without thinking about logic. Charisma doesn't always have anything to do with it.

it's all about public image

sorry mason, that's how it goes

you have to come off as more attractive than the other person to win, whether they're right OR wrong

good communication is about more than just talking

This post has been edited by LuigiFan on Nov 1 2009, 11:21 PM