The Quality of Fangames, A Post by Yoshiman

Dear Friends and Others at MFGG,


Me and Chris had recently been discussing how people on the internet look upon the quality of fangames. This may be posted over at SFGHQ as an example as well.


To sum it up: People expect too much.


We know that games have been upgraded to much higher expectations now due to advancements in our software technology, and our age. Unfortunately, there's others who are new and are not as advanced.



So why are you so critical of the quality?


You must realize that we were all newbs/n00bs at one point of time with fangaming. We didn't produce the best quality around. But we also were young back then.


Here's another thing you must realize. WE ARE NOT PROFESSIONALS.

WE DO NOT HAVE AS MUCH MONEY AS PROFESSIONAL GAME DEVELOPERS. WE DO NOT HAVE AS MUCH TIME. WE DO NOT HAVE THE IMMEDIATE SOFTWARE.

SO WHY IS IT THAT EVERYTIME SOMEONE PRODUCES SOMETHING (whether game, sprite or otherwise), WE ALL BLAM IT TO DEATH IF IT'S NOT AT THE UPMOST QUALITY.

Don't be so judgemental. Do not just tell them "It sucks. Go away. Don't even attempt to try again." HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO LEARN THIS WAY? You do not learn by having someone insult your intelligence. You learn by improving.

So don't say it sucks. Constructive criticism. Tell them what's wrong. AND KEEP IN MIND THAT MOST OF US ARE IN SENIOR/JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL/MIDDLE SCHOOL. SOME OF US HAVE BEEN ADVANCED.

JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE BETTER KNOWLEDGE, DOESN'T MEAN THAT SOMEONE NEW HAS OUR KNOWLEDGE.


Seriously, like I said, you expect too much. You expect new people to atleast produce a full quality thing right away. No way. Rome wasn't built in a day.



And what about those of us who are better in knowledge? We try to the best of our ability to produce good quality. And what happens? "IT SUCKS. GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE WE TOSS YOU OUT." No, no, no. We are not professionals.

We are simply Mario fangamers. We like to make fangames. We do it for the reason to entertain you people.

SO WHY ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS OF ENTERTAINMENT SO HIGH FOR PEOPLE AS YOUNG AS US?


Another factor is the "idiots" we have around here. Recently, we've had more people that have joined our forum for the sheer joy of flaming others for what they try their best to do. Don't. Realize what we are. Realize our purpose. These are Mario fangames. These are not "try and create a full quality Nintendo clone." Like what we are already capable of doing. If you want more, you're an idiot, for thinking that we have to automatically be NOA staff.

Therefore, in conclusion, don't expect higher than what we can do, like our fangames for what they are, give constructive criticism, and most of all, don't be an idiot and flame others. They don't learn from insults. They learn from mistakes and improvements and the help of others.



Sincerely,
Yoshiman

Bravo!

Augh, thank you for telling people to direct their help and critisizm the right way, finally. I would like to see more of that.

I agree. I should post my first "game"

Any "homebrew" game can and will be subject to the same judgment any other game would be; and that's not because you are being pissed on, it's because the end consumer is interested in what they're playing. Mario Kart DS is not fun because it was made by a group of three kids in a garage; the game design is simply flawless. Mario Left the Cheese Out doesn't suck because it wasn't made by Nintendo, it sucks because it's terrible. It's flawed on every level that would make level design annoying, or a game more about flash than substance.

If you want your games to be treated as some sort of programming special Olympics; you have a very wrong idea of how your work should ever be viewed.

No you do not have the resources major companies do; but that's why you are not in the same areas, you do not have the resources to rendera 3D landscape that stretches miles with a fully realized bustling city of people, even if they were randomly spawned the sort of AI routines you would have to program would already overwhelm you.

The difference comes in your designs; for the same reason Tetris will outlast Grand Theft Auto a "fan gamer" can make something amazing out of a new simplistic concept that will out last the best shooters today. You aren't making something to imitate something else; you are making something to stand-out, something you're not gonna see elsewhere. Other than that you'll just end up with a perfect engine over God knows how long of time, and then what you basically have is a hands-on level editor.

I'd post mine if I still had it

Good point. Even though we shouldn't be so critical, we should be enough to recognize when someone is doing it "just because."


We DO need originality, ideas that no one else has done, that's what the people who create fangames must also realize.

Some good points, and for a common joe end consumer you're right

But if you're dealing with other members of a fangaming community, there should at least be some sense of "okay, you tried, you stumbled where everyone else stumbled - now try again", instead of "you suck at life go away".

I can agree 190% with this.
though Harsh statements can not only affect a person's fangames (or other things) it can also mess up their future in so many ways... believe me I've been on that road, and also you're just asking for a fight.

We're not professionals, we're just a group of people who make fangames just for the fun of it, other than that you could just care less about what critics say and just go on with your own life.

but as far as I know, most of us here can't afford the programs needed to make Professional Quality games.

Aim for perfection and you will come damn close to achieving it. This applies not only for your fangames, but your physical appearance, academic achievements and sporting achievements. It is a motto I live by everyday, and sometimes harsh criticism is the best way for a person to improve.

I agree with Yoshiman and Henford.

I feel like making another fangame now :P

and I feel like learning how to sprite and what not :/

I dislike when others are so critical as well. Try to help out, we all started somewhere.

I agree with this =)

Basically this is true.
And because some guys can do pretty good games, that doesn't meant that everyone else has to do the same quality.
The only thing which really sucks is when you see that someone didn't put any effort in it (game is glitchy, graphics suck, sounds suck, it's just an edit from a tutorial, etc...).

Kitty Quest... Now THAT was quality at it's best. Shame nobody played it

This rant seems to apply mostly to platforming fangames. In that case, all I can say is: if you try to imitate something, expect to be compared to it.

Like how RyuFox Fighters is always being compared to SSB/SSBM or Power Stone, the comparison factor will always be there. The thing we need less of are people like the jokers at TDC who come down so harshly on it because it's homebrew.

Same thing with my spritework. A lot of people like it, but those who don't (and I can very easily name a few) rarely ever seem to constructively criticize me on them, but instead, they'll blam me for it only to get other people to join in the Kitsune Sprite Bashfest.

Dude, I really agree with you on this one..

People in SFGHQ are absolute idiots, but they mask it using annoyingly compiled words.

If they see a bad game they just go "ZOMG SUXXORS LOLZ" in a wannabe non idiot form.

People seem to forget that they have lives outside of the damn screen and not just bits of data with an avatar, so they tend to be rude like that and then go "I WASNT HARSH I WAS BEING CONSTRUCTIVE GEEZUZZUZUZUZUZ"


As long as you try as hard as you can, there is no such thing as "trying not hard enough."

i dont see how anyone could say your's suck(i sound like a suck up, but I;m not)
I really like tthe on in ur sig

anyway, i might infact remeke my first game(cuz it was lost in my 1st ciomputer that died years ago, a mario/sonic crossover game)
i was such a noob at =fangaming, my characters could move in all 8 dirs on a platfrming level

This post has been edited by Mario Dragmire on Nov 22 2005, 12:26 PM

well said.